SUKKOT & SHARAD PURNIMA

Is it strange that in 2 religions that absolutly not connected the same festival?

This year The Jewish festival Sukkot and the Hindu festival Sharad Purnima were on the same day.

The Hindu festival is a harvest festival celebrated on the full moon day.

The Jewish festival is also a harvest festival celebrated on the full moon day:

and the feast of ingathering, at the end of the year, when thou gatherest in thy labours out of the field.

(Exodus 23:16)

Thou shalt keep the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in from thy threshing-floor and from thy
winepress.

And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy
son, and thy daughter, and thy man-servant, and thy maid-servant, and the
Levite, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy
gates.

Seven days shalt thou keep a feast unto the LORD thy God in the
place which the LORD shall choose; because the LORD thy God shall bless
thee in all thine increase, and in all the work of thy hands, and thou
shalt be altogether joyful.

(Deuteronomy 16:13-15)

Howbeit on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when
ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep the feast of
the LORD seven days; on the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth
day shall be a solemn rest.

(Leviticus 23:39)

So it isn't strange that we find 2 religions that celebrate a Universal phenomenon such as Harvest.

Is there a fundamental diffrance between the 2 religions in the way the celebrate it?

The Harvest is an event that repeat itslef every year.
It's an event that have nothing to do with the historical timeline so basicaly it's timeless.

Judaism take this timeless event and connect it with the historical timeline:

Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are home-born in Israel shall dwell in booths;

that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Leviticus 23:42-43).

Bible & Quran on Pregnancy

As I familair with Biblical text when i read this quranic verse,it sound very familar to me:

We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents; in pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth
(Quran 46:15)

Well the context is a little bit diffrent but the style is much similar to one of the famous verses in Genesis:

Unto the woman He said: 'I will greatly multiply thy pain and
thy travail; in pain thou shalt bring forth children;
(Genesis 3:16)

once agian we can see the influence of Judaism on Islam.

Was Abel a Muslim?

The story of Cain and Abel is very famous both in Bible and Quran.

According to Quran,when Abel understood that Cain intend to kill him he said:

Even if thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I shall not stretch out
my hand against thee to kill thee, lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

(5:28)

Is that Islamic atitued? sound more like the christian atitued of the other cheek:

But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the
right cheek, turn to him the other also.

(Matthew 5:39)

I wonder if muslims take it as Islamic way and if so,who exactly follow this way?

Josephus point of view about Hindus

The context of this qoute is a speech of Eleazar ben Ya'ir who was the commander of Masada and just before they lost to the Romans they all commited suiced cause they didn't want to fall into Roman's hands.

This is a part of a speech:

Yet, if we do stand in need of foreigners to support us in this matter, let us
regard those Indians who profess the exercise of philosophy;
for these good men do but unwillingly undergo the time of life, and look upon it as a necessary servitude, and make haste to let their souls loose from their bodies;

nay, when no misfortune presses them to it, nor drives them upon it, these have such a desire of a life of immortality, that they tell other men beforehand that they are about to depart;

and nobody hinders them, but every one thinks them
happy men, and gives them letters to be carried to their familiar friends [that are dead], so firmly and certainly do they believe that souls converse with one another [in the other world].

So when these men have heard all such commands
that were to be given them, they deliver their body to the fire; and, in order
to their getting their soul a separation from the body in the greatest purity,
they die in the midst of hymns of commendations made to them;

for their dearest friends conduct them to their death more readily than do any of the rest of mankind conduct their fellow-citizens when they are going a very long journey, who at the same time weep on their own account, but look upon the others as happy persons, as so soon to be made partakers of the immortal order of beings. Are not we, therefore, ashamed to have lower notions than the
Indians?

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/2850/2850-h/book7.htm#2HCH0008

remember my friends,this was written 2000 years ago!

Who was Haman?

3 biggest enemies of the jews

Ask a jewish child who were the 3 biggest enemies of the jews in jewish history and they will give you 2 names from ancient era and 1 from modern era.

Those 3 are of course - Pharaoh,Haman & Hitler.

They all wanted the elimination of the jewish nation.

Pharaoh,king of Egypt(~13th century BC):

And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying: 'Every son that is
born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.'
(exodus 1:22)

The salvation from him is celebrated in Passover.

Haman,was the advaisor of Ahasuerus,king of Persia(~5th century BC):

After these things did king Ahasuerus promote Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, and advanced him, and set his seat above all the princes that were with him.

(Ester 3:1)

wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole
kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.

(Ester 3:6)

The salvation from him is celebrated in Purim.

Hitler - well,i think everyone knows his story...

Haman in Islam

To establish a firm place for them in the land, and to show
Pharaoh, Haman, and their hosts, at their hands, the very things against which they were taking precautions.

(Quran 28:6)

Then the people of Pharaoh picked him up (from the river): (It was intended)
that (Moses) should be to them an adversary and a cause of sorrow: for Pharaoh and Haman and (all) their hosts were men of sin.

(Quran 28:8)

Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty
palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!"

(Quran 28:38)

(Remember also) Qarun, Pharaoh, and Haman: there came to them Moses with Clear
Signs, but they behaved with insolence on the earth; yet they could not
overreach (Us).

(Quran 29:39)

To Pharaoh, Haman, and Qarun; but they called
(him)" a sorcerer telling lies!"...

(Quran 40:24)

So Muhammad took Haman the advaisor and placed him in Pharaoh palace 1000 years before his time.

Not the first time that muhammad take 2 jewish Motifs and mix them together.

i don't think that muhammad did it consciously,but heard those stories long time before and they mixed in his memory.

Muslism don't understand why jews didn't followed Muhammad,it's a puzzle for them.

I think that Muhmmad was a great,impresive & idealist man but only jews who are familaiar with jewish tradition can sence muhammad errors.

Jewish holidays in a nutshell

They tried to kill us,we were saved,now let's eat!

The migration of pig from Judaism to Islam

Forbidden animals in Judaism

And the LORD spoke unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them:

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: These are the living things which ye may eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is wholly cloven-footed, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that may ye eat.

(Leviticus 11:1-3)

So God give a criterion for a "Kosher" animal:

1. parteth the hoof
2. wholly cloven-footed
3. cheweth the cud

The animal who fit to those 3 conditions can be eaten and those who not are forbidden.

What's the reason?

Not specified,only God will.

later on so there won't be any mistakes,there's example for each exception:

Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that only chew the cud, or of them that only part the hoof:

the camel, because he cheweth the cud but parteth not the hoof, he is unclean unto you.

And the rock-badger, because he cheweth the cud but parteth not the hoof, he is unclean unto you.

And the hare, because she cheweth the cud but parteth not the hoof, she is unclean unto you.

And the swine, because he parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, but cheweth not the cud, he is unclean unto you.

(Leviticus 11:4-7)

So all those animals are forbidden cause they don't fit the criterion of "Kosher" animals.

Are those animals evil? bad?

No,they are just forbidden from eating.

Is pig diffrent than all other animals?

No,he's just an example for animal who don't cheweth the cud

Forbidden animals in Islam

He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah.

(quran 2:173)

Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah;

(quran 5:3)

So we see that pig was forbidden in Islam like in Judaism,but why all other forbidden animals in Judaism not?

Is Pig diffrent than other animals?

We can find a clue in similar verse:

Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

(quran 6:145)

So eating pig is abomination,but why - what so special in that animal?

I think we can find the answer for that in jewish tradition.

The evolution of pig in Judaism

Pigs in Greek Rituals

The ancient greeks had a special ritual related to Demeter Godess which called Thesmophoria.

Pigs had major part of those rituals:

Most closely related to the Mysteries at Eleusis were the so-called "Thesmophoria" (from thesmoi, meaning "laws," and phoria, "carrying," in reference to the goddess as "law-bearer"). These rites were celebrated by women only throughout all Greece in the month of Pyanepsion (late October), their characteristic feature being a pig sacrifice, the usual sacrifice to chthonic deities. The Greeks attributed special powers to pigs on account of their fertility, the potency and abundance of their blood, and perhaps because of their uncanny ability to unearth underground tubers and shoots. It was believed that mingling their flesh with the seeds of grain would increase the abundance of next year's harvest. The ceremonies comprised fasting and purification, a ritualized descent into the underworld, and the use of sympathetic magic to bring renewed life back out of the jaws of death (Harrison 120-31; Baring and Cashford 374-77). Similarly, the Eleusinian Mysteries also revered swine and their rituals featured the washing and sacrificing of young pigs sacred to Demeter (although this took place on the beaches at Pireas near Athens rather than at Eleusis itself). The numerous correspondences suggest that the Eleusinian Mysteries were of a piece with the Thesmophoria, and perhaps shared the same historical origins.

http://users.erols.com/nbeach/eleusis.html

Pig as symbol of Greek war with the jews

The year is 167 BC :

After Jerusalem was re-conquered by Antiochus(IV Epiphanes) ,he legislated many laws against Judaism.

He wanted to Hellenization the jews.

So one of the laws was related to the pig:

And he commanded altars to be built, and temples, and idols, and swine's flesh to be immolated, and unclean beasts.

(1 Maccabees 1:50)

http://st-takla.org/pub_Deuterocanon/Deuterocanon-Apocrypha_El-Asfar_El-Kanoneya_El-Tanya__8-First-of-Maccabees.html

Greek era - The horrifying story of Eleazar

Eleazar one of the chief of the scribes, a man advanced in years, and of a comely countenance, was pressed to open his mouth to eat swine's flesh.

But he, choosing rather a most glorious death than a hateful life, went forward voluntarily to the torment.

And considering in what manner he was come to ii;, patiently bearing, he determined not to do any unlawful things for the love of life.

But they that stood by, being moved with wicked pity, for the old friendship they had with the man, taking him aside, desired that flesh might be brought, which it was lawful for him to eat, that he might make as if he had eaten, as the king had commanded of the flesh of the sacrifice:

That by so doing he might be delivered from death: and for the sake of their old friendship with the man they did him this courtesy.

But he began to consider the dignity of his age, and his ancient years, and the inbred honour of his grey head, and his good life and conversation from a child: and he answered without delay, according to the ordinances of the holy law made by God, saying, that he would rather be sent into the other world.

For it doth not become our age, said he, to dissemble: whereby many young persons might think that Eleazar, at the age of fourscore and ten years, was gone over to the life of the heathens:

And so they, through my dissimulation, and for a little time of a corruptible life, should be deceived, end hereby I should bring a stain and a curse upon my old age.

For though, for the present time, I should be delivered from the punishments of men, yet should I not escape the hand of the Almighty neither alive nor dead.

Wherefore by departing manfully out of this life, I shall shew myself worthy of my old age:

And I shall leave an example of fortitude to young men, if with a ready mind and constancy I suffer an honourable death, for the most venerable and most holy laws. And having spoken thus, he was forthwith carried to execution.

And they that led him, and had been a little before more mild, were changed to wrath for the words he had spoken, which they thought were uttered out of arrogancy.

But when he was now ready to die with the stripes, he groaned, and said: O Lord, who hast the holy knowledge, thou knowest manifestly that whereas I might be delivered from death, I suffer grevious pains in body: but in soul am well content to suffer these things be- cause I fear thee.

Thus did this man die, leaving not only to young men, but also to the whole nation, the memory of his death for an example of virtue and fortitude.

(2 Maccabees 6:18-31)

http://st-takla.org/pub_Deuterocanon/Deuterocanon-Apocrypha_El-Asfar_El-Kanoneya_El-Tanya__9-Second-of-Maccabees.html

Greek era - The horrifying story of 7 sons

To came to pass also, that seven brethren, together with their mother, were apprehended, and compelled by the king to eat swine's flesh against the law, for which end they were tormented with whips and scourges.

But one of them, who was the eldest, said thus: What wouldst thou ask, or learn of us? we are ready to die rather than to transgress the laws of God, received from our fathers.

Then the king being angry commanded fryingpans, and brazen caldrons to be made hot: which forthwith being heated,

He commanded to cut out the tongue of him that had spoken first: and the skin of his head being drawn off, to chop off also the extremities of his hands and feet, the rest of his brethren, and his mother, looking on.

And when he was now maimed in all parts, he commanded him, being yet alive, to be brought to the Are, and to be fried in the fryingpan: and while he was suffering therein long torments, the rest, together with the mother, exhorted one another to die manfully,

Saying: The Lord God will look upon the truth, and will take pleasure in us, "as Moses declared in the profession of the canticle: And In his servants he will take pleasure.

So when the first was dead after this manner, they brought the next to make him a, mocking stock: and when they had pulled off the skin of his head with the hair, they asked him if he would eat, before he were punished throughout the whole body in every limb.

But he answered in his own language, and said: I will not do it. Wherefore Ire also in the next place, received the torments of the first:

And when he was at the last gasp, he said thus: Thou indeed, O most wicked man, destroyest us out of this present life: but the King of the world will raise us up, who die for his laws, in the resurrection of eternal life.

After him the third was made a mocking stock, and when he was required, he quickly put forth his tongue, and courageously stretched out his hands:

And said with confidence: These have from heaven, but for the laws of God I now despise them: because I hope to receive them again from him.

So that the king, and they that were with him, wondered at the young man's courage, because he esteemed the torments as nothing.

And after he was thus dead, they tormented the fourth in the like manner

And when he was now ready to die, he spoke thus: It is better, being put to death by men, to look for hope from God, to be raised up again by him: for, as to thee thou shalt have no resurrection unto life.

And when they had brought the fifth, they tormented him. But he looking upon the king,

Said: Whereas thou hast power among men, though thou art corruptible, thou dost what thou wilt: but think not that our nation is forsaken by God.

But stay patiently a while, and thou shalt see his great power, in what manner he will torment thee and thy seed.

After him they brought the sixth, and he being ready to die, spoke thus: Be not deceived without cause: for we suffer these things for ourselves, having sinned against our God, and things worthy of admiration are done to us:

But do not think that thou s escape unpunished, for that thou attempted to fight against God.

Now the mother was to be ad above measure, and worthy to be remembered by good men, who beheld seven sons slain in the space of one day, and bore it with a good courage, for the hope that she had in God:

And she bravely exhorted every o of them in her own language, being filled with wisdom: and joining a man's heart to a woman's thought,

She said to them: I know not how you were formed in my womb: for I neither gave you breath, nor soul, nor life, neither did I frame the limbs of every one of you.
But the Creator of the world, that formed the nativity of man, and that found out the origin of all, he will re- store to you again in his mercy, both breath and life, as now you despise your- selves for the sake of his laws.

(2 Maccabees 7:1-23)

So we can see that during the Greek occupation ,Pig bacame symbol to Greek attempts to convert jews to Hellenistic religion.

Pig as symbol of Roman war with the jews

100 hundred years later during the Romans occupation ,pig was again involved.

The Talmud document this story:

IT IS NOT RIGHT TO BREED PIGS IN ANY PLACE WHATEVER.
Our Rabbis taught: When the members of the Hasmonean house
were contending with one another,
Hyrcanus was within and Aristobulus without [the city wall]
[Those who were within] used to let down to the other party
every day a basket of denarii, and [in return] cattle were sent up
for the regular sacrifices.
There was, however, an old man [among the besiegers]
who had some knowledge in Grecian Wisdom
and who said to them: 'So long as the other party [are allowed to]
continue to perform the service of the sacrifices they will not be
delivered into your hands.
' On the next day when the basket of denarii was let down,
a swine was sent up.
When the swine reached the centre of the wall it stuck its claws
into the wall, and Eretz Yisrael quaked over a distance of four hundred parasangs
by four hundred parasangs.
It was proclaimed on that occasion:
Cursed be the man who would breed swine

(Baba Kamma 82:b)

http://www.come-and-hear.com/babakamma/babakamma_82.html#chapter_viii

So as we see along jewish history the pig transformed from harmless non-kosher animal into a symbol of anti-judaism.

Pig ,from Judaism to Islam

So it's no wonder that in 7th century,Muhammad perceived from the jews that pig is the most negative animal and shouldn't be eaten at all.

That's why from all jewish non-kosher animals only the pig found his way into Islam.

We can find some hadith's that show the negative staus pig has as an animal in Islam:

Muslim recorded that Buraydah bin Al-Husayb Al-Aslami said that the Messenger of Allah:

(He who plays Nardshir (a game with dice that involves gambling) is just like the one who puts his hand in the flesh and blood of swine.)

If this is the case with merely touching the flesh and blood of swine, so what about eating and feeding on it?

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=825&Itemid=

Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine.

(Sahih Muslim, Book 28, Number 5612)

Narrated Al-Mughirah ibn Shu'bah:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: He who sold wine should shear the flesh of swine.

(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 23, Number 3482)

There's even a Hadith that say that when jesus return he will kill all pigs!!!

Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizya and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.

(Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0287)

looks like someone has strong feelings against this animal...

The Gharqad subtext

We discussed about this Hadith:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

I showed some youtubes from Islamic spokemans about this hadith.

What they all said in common is a fact/rumor they all have heard:

Jews Plant Gharqad around their homes.

Lets see it:

Muhammad Al-Arifi

"Studies conducted in Tel Aviv and in the Palestinian lands occupied by the Jews showed that they plant Gharqad trees around their homes, because the Prophet Muhammad said that when the Muslims fight the Jews, each and every stone and tree will say: Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. The only exception is the Gharqad tree, which is one of the trees of the Jews, and if they hide behind it, it will not reveal their presence. According to reports of people who went there and saw it with their own eyes, many Jews plant Gharqad trees around their homes, so that when the fighting begins, they can hide behind them. They are not man enough to stand and fight you."



Jordanian minister of religious endowments 'Ali Al-Faqir and Jordanian professor of religious law Khaled Al-Qudha:

The Jews know this and that's why they plant a lot of Gharqad trees.
They know the hadith!
They surround their settlments with Gharqad trees.



Muhammad Hussein Yaqoub

"I have heard that they are planting many of these trees now."



well,you can figure it out that most Jews/Israelies never heard about this Hadith.

Even those who heard it don't really know what Gharqad tree is.

BTW Israeli authorities usually plant Pines & Cypress.

And of-course that Jews don't believe in this hadith anyhow...

So bottom line this so called fact is a big lie!

But the question is why? why to lie to your people?

There's an important subtext behind this so called fact,Let follow their logic:

If Jews plant Gharqad tree it means that they believe in the hadith.

If they believe in the hadith - they should become Muslims.

If they believe in Hadith and don't accept Islam - It's only becuase their evil harts!

Why Mecca isn't the capital of Saudi Arabia?

I asked in Interfaith Dialogue forum this question:

Why Riyadh is the capital of Saudi Arabia and not Mecca?
Isn't the holiest city should be also the capital?

All of the responses were - that there is no connection between Holiness of City and being the Capital of a State.

Here are some examples:

• A capital has nothing to do with holiness, it has administrative purpose and the city most accessible and well connected, having good resources can serve as a capital..( Gaurav)

• First you have to know that what is the Criteria to make a it as Capital of Country, and Holyness is Not from that criteria... ( Farhan )

• It is the holiest place. Doesn't mean it should be the capital as well. What fuckall logic. ( Professor )

• NOT necessary ...that is jewish thinking.there are many holi cities which not capital of the country...come out of jewish thinking...... ( nayeem )

Well,I agree with them all...

So now i asked a second question:

Now my question is why arabs demand Jerusalem to be their capital.

Jerusalem wasn't capital of any Arab or Muslim country - So why now?

Till now,no one really answered this question and there's a good explain for that -

The Palestinas want Jerusalem to be their Capital only to spite the Israelies!!!

If you take the Holiness out of Jerusalem - There's nothing really important for the Palestinais there.

Ramallah is far more important than Jerusalem for the Palestinas in any aspect.

So if the Palestinais really want peace,they should stopm spite the Israelies about Jerusalem.

Judaism,Christianity & Islam

I want to summrize the main similiraty & diffrences between those 3 religions:

1.God:

Judaism - One God

Christianity - 3 in 1 God

Islam - One God

2.Holy Scriptures:

Judaism - OT

Christianity - Accept OT and Add NT

Islam - Don't accept OT or NT,Just Quran

3.National or cosmopolitan religion:

Judaism - Religion for the Jewish Nation

Christianity - Cosmopolitan

Islam - Cosmopolitan

4.Calander:

Judaism - Combination of Solar & Lunar Calendar

Christianity - Solar Calendar

Islam - Lunar Calendar

5.Revelation:

Judaism - Public revelation in front whole nation in mount Sinai.

Christianity - Private revelation(Jesus)

Islam - Private revelation(Muhammad)

6.Circumcision:

Judaism - Mandatory on the 8th day after birth.

Christianity - Not needed

Islam - Debate wheater it's mandatory or just recommended

7.Converting:

Judaism - a long process - need to learn all Judaism laws + Circumcision + Full-body immersion

Christianity - declartion of Faith.

Islam - declartion of Faith.

8.Wine/alcohol:

Judaism - no prohibition,used in religious rituals

Christianity - no prohibition,used in religious rituals

Islam - prohibition of any use

9.Can man be perfect?

Judaism - Only God is perfect,Human are imperfect "For there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."(Ecclesiastes 7:20) and that why we can find faults about biblical figures.

Christianity - Like Judaism,But Jesus is perfect cause he's God...

Islam - All the prophets were perfect.

10.Authority:

Judaism - The Authority of Rabbies - According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left. (Deuteronomy 17:11)

Christianity - pope

Islam - I still don't have a clear statement.

Why KING David, Not Prophet David by Jews?

This is a question was forwared to me by a muslim:

It was Hazarat Daud (A.S) who conquered the sacred land(JERUSALEM) for the jews. Sure he was a King, but a prophet as well, who received Zabur(PSALMS) from Allah. In Bible however, It seems like he was a King alone, and he wrote PSALMS himself. He is potrayed as adulterous too(Nauzubillah). Jews should be having respect for him for what he did to them. They were suffering humiliation untill due to Hazrat Daud they entered Jerusalem again after so long. On the contrary, they only believe him as a king. WHY??In the Quran, it is mentioned that he used to recite zabur so beautifully that even birds and mountains used to sing with him. Why is this not mentioned in Jewish Scriptures? And he used to soften iron in his hand and used to sell hand-made armours to get his income. Why these things are ommitted by them?I just want to know brothers that why Jews remember David as a King but not as a Prophet.Thanks in advance for sharing your views.Jazak Allah

This is my answer:

1.Jews attitude towards David

King David is one of the most appreciated figures by Jews.King David era consider as the Golden era,the highest peak in Jewish History.The hope for the return of David Kindom created one of the most known religious terms - "Massiah"

read here:http://shabtayorkuting.blogspot.com/2009/04/concept-of-masshia.html

2.King or Prophet

Is considering David as a King Only is a decrease in his respect?
King and Prophet are diffrent functions in the Jewish nation leadership.
Do you expect from the heart to function also as a brain?
Both are important and should be seperate.

read here:http://shabtayorkuting.blogspot.com/2009/07/anatomy-of-nation.html

3.Psalms - Prophecy?

What is the diffrent between prophecy and Prayer?
The direction.
Prophecy - From God to Man.
Prayer - From Man to God.
So what is the direction of Psalms?

A Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son.LORD, how many are mine adversaries become! Many are they that rise up against me.Many there are that say of my soul: 'There is no salvation for him in God.' SelahBut thou, O LORD, art a shield about me; my glory, and the lifter up of my head.With my voice I call unto the LORD, and He answereth me out of His holy mountain. SelahI lay me down, and I sleep; I awake, for the LORD sustaineth me.I am not afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about.Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God; for Thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek, Thou hast broken the teeth of the wicked.Salvation belongeth unto the LORD; Thy blessing be upon Thy people. Selah
(Psalms 3)

For the Leader; with string-music. A Psalm of David.Answer me when I call, O God of my righteousness, Thou who didst set me free when I was in distress; be gracious unto me, and hear my prayer.O ye sons of men, how long shall my glory be put to shame, in that ye love vanity, and seek after falsehood? SelahBut know that the LORD hath set apart the godly man as His own; the LORD will hear when I call unto Him.Tremble, and sin not; commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. SelahOffer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.Many there are that say: 'Oh that we could see some good!' LORD, lift Thou up the light of Thy countenance upon us.Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than when their corn and their wine increase.In peace will I both lay me down and sleep; for Thou, LORD, makest me dwell alone in safety.
(Psalms 4)

if we read Psalms carefully we get the feeling that the direction of the Book is from Man to God (Prayer).

The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.
(Psalms 72:20)

If you open the current Jewish prayer Book(sidur) you will find that most of it are quotes from Psalms.

And David spoke unto the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD delivered him out of the hand of all his enemies, and out of the hand of Saul;
(2 Samuel Chapter 22:1)

Again we see the direction Man -> God.

4.David and other Prophets

King David met during his life several prophets.
The First Prophet was Samuel which anoint David:

And the LORD said unto Samuel: 'How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from being king over Israel? fill thy horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite; for I have provided Me a king among his sons.' ...Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren; and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
(1 Samuel 16:1-13)

Another Prophet Who was with David is prophet Gad:

And the prophet Gad said unto David: 'Abide not in the stronghold; depart, and get thee into the land of Judah.' Then David departed, and came into the forest of Hereth.
(1 Samuel 22:5)

the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying...
(2 Samuel 24:11)

Another Prophet Who was with David is prophet Nathan:

And it came to pass, when the king dwelt in his house, and the LORD had given him rest from all his enemies round about, that the king said unto Nathan the prophet: 'See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains.' And Nathan said to the king: 'Go, do all that is in thy heart; for the LORD is with thee.' And it came to pass the same night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying: 'Go and tell My servant David: Thus saith the LORD: Shalt thou build Me a house for Me to dwell in?
(2 Samuel 7:1-5)

And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him: 'There were two men in one city: the one rich, and the other poor.
(2 Samuel 12:1)

As i already said earlier that King and Prophet are 2 diffrent function in the leadership of Israeli nation we can understand why David needed Prophet who served along with him.

5.Did David had revelation?

Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren; and the spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
(1 Samuel 16:13)

The spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and His word was upon my tongue. The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me...
(2 Samuel 23:2-3)

6.David as adulterous

And it came to pass at eventide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house; and from the roof he saw a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon. And David sent and inquired after the woman. And one said: 'Is not this Bath-sheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' And David sent messengers, and took her; and she came in unto him, and he lay with her; for she was purified from her uncleanness; and she returned unto her house.
(2 Samuel 11:2-4)

We find a lot of biblical stories that show us the dark side of the great figures.
The bible don't do idealization to anyone.

For there is not a righteous man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
(Ecclesiastes 7:20)

The focus shouldn't be on the sin but on "sin managment":

And David said unto Nathan: 'I have sinned against the LORD.' And Nathan said unto David: 'The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
(2 Samuel 12:13)

The focus should be on David repent!

7.Summary of David in bible

There is a verse that summarize David Status in the eye of the jews:

Now these are the last words of David: The saying of David the son of Jesse, and the saying of the man raised on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet singer of Israel
(2 Samuel 23:1)

8.Talmud & Islamic prespective

As i said before The bible don't do idealization to anyone.
But the Islamic prespecive that believe that Prophets can't commit sins like this is probably developed from the talmud:

R. Samuel b. Nahmani said in R. Jonathan's name: Whoever says that David sinned is merely erring, for it is said, And David behaved himself wisely in all his ways: and the Lord was with him.Is it possible that sin came to his hand, yet the Divine Presence was with him?
(Babylonian Talmud Shabbat 56a)

Jews & Judaism

People usually are confused about the connection between Jews & Judaism.

Even Jews themselvs are confused!

It's very simple:

Judaism is a religion.

Jews are member of the Jewish Nation.

So What is the connection between them?

Definition of Judaism is a reilgion of the Jewish Nation.

So you can be a jew but not practice Judaism and still consider to be a good Jew.

Is there a documentation on Muhammad?

I asked this question in Interfaith Dialogue community:

Is there a non-islamic documentation on Muhammad during his living?
please don't bring sources after the year 632 AD.

Here are some responses to this question:

Shekhar:

Interesting. I never thought like that. Looking forward to some interesting information.

Zubia was the first muslim who tried to give an answer:

writing books or knowing how to read n write was not a norm these days. according to a source, there were only 17 ppl in Makkah who can read n write. in arab, the ppl in those times were simply illiterate.

So Zubia is aware of that there is no such documentation and try to explain why.

Then the discussion diverted to other places.

It was Jay who Explain my question far better than i did:

Friends purpose of this topic as I understood is to share the history of Arabia from a Pagans perspective ie perspective of victims of Islam.
As islam was the winner it would naturally demonise the pagans exactly the way British Historians demonised Indians and Muslim historinas demonised Hinduism/Sikh Gurus during Muslime rule in India.
Invaders and their associates always demonsie teh victims.
But there is always a perspective of the same event from a victims point of view.
Naturalyy muslims will glorify Mohammed and justify his every actions.
However there is a need to understand the same vent from a Pagan point of view.
Are there any contemporay sources that highlight pagans point of view about Mohammed and his mission.
After reading both points of views only we can know unbiased truth.
But unofrtunately muslim invaders in every part of teh world attacked temples , universities and libraries from taxshila to Nalanda and put the books on fire they hardly allowed any book avaialable other then Quran to surviwe due to simple reason.
Does this books anything better then Quran?
Yes it has : you are lying it is impossible . so get kileld and burn the book.
If it doesnt : then its not required. again burn it.
That's why Pre Islamic sources of history were destroyed completelt to make sure uninterrupted glorification of Mohamemd buy carrying out onesides propaganda.
That's why none here is able to bring even a single source of victims point of view.
I am amazed by Zubia's justification that there were all illeyral people except 17 in mecca those days. She never gave any reference of her information though? Is it a naturally biased Islamic source of some unbiased pre Islamic source?

Kamel also joined saying:

topic being documentation ON muhammed , by his contemporaries !
it is shown to NOT exist , and one wonders why !?
I mean its not like it is 3000 - 4000 years ago , surely the copts , the jews of that time , pagans , Zoroastrians , these are / were Arabia's neighbors.
NO ONE recorded anything ??

Khuldoon which is Muslim guy answered:

an account by a non-muslim upon prophet at that time, I dont know. havent heard of any.

So buttom line there's no such documentation,the question is why?
Is it cause in this time and area people weren't such developed to write such documents? or Is it cause muslims destroyed such documents?

Why are Jews?

Anatomy of a Nation

The Israeli nation is like the human body.
Like the Human body there are important organs that the body can't live without them.

Here is a short summary of 4 important organs in the Jewish Nation - The Judiciary,The Priesthood,The King and The Prophet.


The Judiciary

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people; and the people stood about Moses from the morning unto the evening.

And when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he did to the people, he said: 'What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand about thee from morning unto even?'

And Moses said unto his father-in-law: 'Because the people come unto me to inquire of God;

when they have a matter, it cometh unto me; and I judge between a man and his neighbour, and I make them know the statutes of God, and His laws.'

And Moses' father-in-law said unto him: 'The thing that thou doest is not good.

Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee; for the thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.

Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God be with thee: be thou for the people before God, and bring thou the causes unto God.

And thou shalt teach them the statutes and the laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating unjust gain; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.

And let them judge the people at all seasons; and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge themselves; so shall they make it easier for thee and bear the burden with thee.

If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people also shall go to their place in peace.'

So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father-in-law, and did all that he had said.

And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.

And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.

(Exodus 18:13-26)

After 40 years in the desert,Moses look back to this event:

And I spoke unto you at that time, saying: 'I am not able to bear you myself alone;

the LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.--

The LORD, the God of your fathers, make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as He hath promised you!--

How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?

Get you, from each one of your tribes, wise men, and understanding, and full of knowledge, and I will make them heads over you.'

And ye answered me, and said: 'The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.'

So I took the heads of your tribes, wise men, and full of knowledge, and made them heads over you, captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, and captains of fifties, and captains of tens, and officers, tribe by tribe.

And I charged your judges at that time, saying: 'Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; ye shall hear the small and the great alike; ye shall not be afraid of the face of any man; for the judgment is God's; and the cause that is too hard for you ye shall bring unto me, and I will hear it.'

And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

(Deuteronomy 1:9-18)

So what will be with judiciary system when Israel will enter land of Israel?

Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, tribe by tribe; and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment.

(Deuteronomy 16:18)

If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within thy gates; then shalt thou arise, and get thee up unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose.

And thou shall come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days; and thou shalt inquire; and they shall declare unto thee the sentence of judgment.

And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare unto thee from that place which the LORD shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee.

According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

And the man that doeth presumptuously, in not hearkening unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die; and thou shalt exterminate the evil from Israel.

(Deuteronomy 17:8-12)

The Priesthood

The Levites tribe got the Job of the Temple rituals:

but appoint thou the Levites over the tabernacle of the testimony, and over all the furniture thereof, and over all that belongeth to it; they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the furniture thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.

(Numbers 1:50)

'Bring the tribe of Levi near, and set them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him. And they shall keep his charge, and the charge of the whole congregation before the tent of meeting, to do the service of the tabernacle. And they shall keep all the furniture of the tent of meeting, and the charge of the children of Israel, to do the service of the tabernacle. And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons; they are wholly given unto him from the children of Israel. And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, that they may keep their priesthood; and the common man that draweth nigh shall be put to death.'

(Numbers 3:6-10)

Cause of their special status,they won't have any land in Israel:

The priests the Levites, even all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and His inheritance. And they shall have no inheritance among their brethren; the LORD is their inheritance, as He hath spoken unto them.

So how will they provide food for their family?

And this shall be the priests' due from the people, from them that offer a sacrifice, whether it be ox or sheep, that they shall give unto the priest the shoulder, and the two cheeks, and the maw. The first-fruits of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the first of the fleece of thy sheep, shalt thou give him. For the LORD thy God hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of the LORD, him and his sons for ever.

(Deuteronomy 18:1-5)

Beside of the Temple rituals,the Pristhood Job is for Spiritual guidance in purity and impurity questions:

When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, or a scab, or a bright spot, and it become in the skin of his flesh the plague of leprosy, then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests.

(Leviticus 13:2)

When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest.

(Leviticus 13:9)

The King

When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein; and shalt say: 'I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are round about me';
thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose; one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee; thou mayest not put a foreigner over thee, who is not thy brother.
Only he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses; forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you: 'Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.'
Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away; neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book, out of that which is before the priests the Levites.
And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them;
that his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left; to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he and his children, in the midst of Israel.

(Deuteronomy 17:14-20)

The Prophet

When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer.
For whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto the LORD; and because of these abominations the LORD thy God is driving them out from before thee.
Thou shalt be whole-hearted with the LORD thy God.
For these nations, that thou art to dispossess, hearken unto soothsayers, and unto diviners; but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
according to all that thou didst desire of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.'
And the LORD said unto me: 'They have well said that which they have spoken.
I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.
But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.'
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?'
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

(Deuteronomy 18:9-22)

The meaning of the word Almah

What is the source for the virgin birth in christianity?

In Matthew 1:

[22] All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
[23] "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,and his name shall be called Emmanuel"

So who was the prophet who said that?

It's Isaiah!

lets see what is written in his prophetcy:

[14] Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el


What is the reason for that diffrance?

It's all about translation!

The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

An example for that:

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, and lay wanton charges against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say: 'I took this woman, and when I came nigh to her, I found not in her the tokens of virginity[1]'; then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity[2] unto the elders of the city in the gate. And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders: 'I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; and, lo, he hath laid wanton charges, saying: I found not in thy daughter the tokens of virginity[3]; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.[4]' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.And the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him. And they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin[5] of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.

(Deuteronomy 22:13-19)

Those verse descibe a procedere that muslim are familiar with - Virginity Test.

So those verse talk very clear about the physical status of a woman = Virgin or Not.
What is the Hebrew word which describe the physical status of a woman?
All words in this section are from the Root word Bethulah.
In 4 first times when it relate to the hymen - the word is "Bethulim".
In the 5th time when it reltaed to the woman Status,virgin - the word is "Bethulah".

In Aramaic also (which is also a sematic languagh) the word for virgin is Betulata.
see here: http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/

So it's very clear what is the word in Hebrew for a virgin.

What is the Hebrew word Isaiah use?

Isaiah use the word almah which mean in Hebrew - a young girl.
An example for this:

And the king said: 'Inquire thou whose son the stripling is.'

(Samuel1 17:56)

The meaning of the word stripling is a youth( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stripling )

The Hebrew word for stripling is "alem" which is the masculine form of the word almah.

So the source for this concept of Virgin birth is a mistake in translation!!!


for more reading see this:

http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishviewofjesus/a/jesus_virgin.htm

Bible,Torha and New Testement,what's the diffrance?

A common phenomenon that people use the same word but they mean to diffrent thing.

It's the case for the word Bible.

Jews & Christinas use the same word but for each it has a diffrent meaning.

The Hebrew word for Bible is Tanakh which is acronym for its 3 parts:

The Torah,which contain those books:

1. Genesis [בראשית / B'reshit]
2. Exodus [שמות / Sh'mot]
3. Leviticus [ויקרא / Vayiqra]
4. Numbers [במדבר / B'midbar]
5. Deuteronomy [דברים / D'varim]

Nevi'im,which contain those books:

6. Joshua [יהושע / Y'hoshua]
7. Judges [שופטים / Shophtim]
8. Samuel (I & II) [שמואל / Sh'muel]
9. Kings (I & II) [מלכים / M'lakhim]
10. Isaiah [ישעיה / Y'shayahu]
11. Jeremiah [ירמיה / Yir'mi'yahu]
12. Ezekiel [יחזקאל / Y'khezqel]
13. The Twelve Prophets [תרי עשר]
a. Hosea [הושע / Hoshea]
b. Joel [יואל / Yo'el]
c. Amos [עמוס / Amos]
d. Obadiah [עובדיה / Ovadyah]
e. Jonah [יונה / Yonah]
f. Micah [מיכה / Mikhah]
g. Nahum [נחום / Nakhum]
h. Habakkuk [חבקוק /Khavaquq]
i. Zephaniah [צפניה / Ts'phanyah]
j. Haggai [חגי / Khagai]
k. Zechariah [זכריה / Z'kharyah]
l. Malachi [מלאכי / Mal'akhi]

Ketuvim,which contain those books:

14. Psalms [תהלים / T'hilim]
15. Proverbs [משלי / Mishlei]
16. Job [איוב / Iyov]
The "Five Megilot" or "Five Scrolls":
17. Song of Songs [שיר השירים / Shir Hashirim]
18. Ruth [רות / Rut]
19. Lamentations [איכה / Eikhah]
20. Ecclesiastes [קהלת / Qohelet]
21. Esther [אסתר / Est(h)er]
The rest of the "Writings":
22. Daniel [דניאל / Dani'el]
23. Ezra-Nehemiah [עזרא ונחמיה / Ezra wuNekhem'ya]
24. Chronicles (I & II) [דברי הימים / Divrey Hayamim]

Christians accept all those book as sacred and call them Old Testement.

The Story of Jesus and other books that related to Christians are known as The New Testement.

more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

The concept of "Son of God"

What is the meaning of this title anyway?

If it means that his mother was a virgin that conceived from God - So there's no real father but God.

This concept is far away judaism.It sound like stories from Greek/Roman Mythology.

There are several stories in the bible of God Helping woman to conceive.In all of them there was a father involve.

The concept of barren woman that eventually succeed to concieved by the help of God

The concept of barren woman that eventually succeed to concieved by the help of God is very common in Bible:

1.Abraham & Sara:

And He said: 'I will certainly return unto thee when the season cometh round; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son.' And Sarah heard in the tent door, which was behind him.-- Now Abraham and Sarah were old, and well stricken in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.-- And Sarah laughed within herself, saying: 'After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?' And the LORD said unto Abraham: 'Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying: Shall I of a surety bear a child, who am old? Is any thing too hard for the LORD. At the set time I will return unto thee, when the season cometh round, and Sarah shall have a son.'

(Genesis 18:10-14)

And the result:And the LORD remembered Sarah as He had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as He had spoken. And Sarah conceived, and bore Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bore to him, Isaac.

(Genesis 21:1-3)

2.Jacob & Rachel:

And when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and she said unto Jacob: 'Give me children, or else I die.' And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel; and he said: 'Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?'

(Genesis 30:1-2)

and the result:And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb. (Genesis 30:22)

3.Birth of Samson:

And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bore not. And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her: 'Behold now, thou art barren, and hast not borne; but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.

(Judges 13:2-3)

and the result:And the woman bore a son, and called his name Samson; and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him.

(Judges 13:24)

4.Birth of Prophet Samuel:

Now there was a certain man of Ramathaim-zophim, of the hill-country of Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephraimite.And he had two wives: the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah; and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.

...but unto Hannah he gave a double portion; for he loved Hannah, but the LORD had shut up her womb.

...And she vowed a vow, and said: 'O LORD of hosts, if Thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of Thy handmaid, and remember me, and not forget Thy handmaid, but wilt give unto Thy handmaid a man-child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.'

...And it came to pass, when the time was come about, that Hannah conceived, and bore a son; and she called his name Samuel: 'because I have asked him of the LORD.'

(Samuel1 1)

All of those stories there are childless woman that God "Help" them to concieve.In all of those stories the father was involve in the concieving...

The concept of having sex in order to concieve

In Judaism Sex between married couple is not a sin,on the contrary it's a commandment:

And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'

(Genesis 1:27-28)

Those verse are consider in Judaism as a commandment do bring children to the world.If you understand this concept you can understand that there's no reason that a prophet/Massiha will be from a virgin woman...

What is a miracle?

God created the natural rules.When God "break" his own rules - we call it a miracle.

In Judaism God "break" his own rules only if there's a reason or purpose.

few examples:

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh will not hearken unto you, and I will lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth My hosts, My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt, by great judgments. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth My hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.'

(Exodus 7:3-5)

And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Go in unto Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might show these My signs in the midst of them;and that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what I have wrought upon Egypt, and My signs which I have done among them; that ye may know that I am the LORD.'

(Exodus 10:1-2)

And lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thy hand over the sea, and divide it; and the children of Israel shall go into the midst of the sea on dry ground. And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall go in after them; and I will get Me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten Me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.'

(Exodus 14:16-18)

And Israel saw the great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians, and the people feared the LORD; and they believed in the LORD, and in His servant Moses.

(Exodus 14:31)

the miracles of Exodus had a purpose - To strengthen the faith of Israel in God and in Moses prophethood.

So those are miracles with purpose.There's also miracles with special reason:

Sara birth in the age of 90 was due to the covenant that God maid with Abraham:

And God said: 'Nay, but Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son; and thou shalt call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his seed after him.

(Genesis 17:19)

Some of the miracles were done because of righteous person pray:

And she vowed a vow, and said: 'O LORD of hosts, if Thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of Thy handmaid, and remember me, and not forget Thy handmaid, but wilt give unto Thy handmaid a man-child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.'

(samuel1 1:11)

So every miracle has a purpose or a reason.

What purpose or reason has the virgin birth miracle? It's unnecessary miracle !

Is a virgin conceiving is a miracle?

When 90 years old woman get birth - It's a miracle.Everyone knows that 90 years can't get birth and if she does - they say:"It's miracle!".

When a woman who claim to be a virgin get birth - ppl will say...ok you can imagine what ppl will say...

It's like a wood failing in the wood and no one hear it.If no one can know if the woman is virgin or not for them it's not a mircle...

The concept of Masshia

A lot of muslims ask me who is the Masshia for the jews or Why jews don't believe Jesus is the Masshia?

I think that before asking Who is the Masshia we should understand What is Masshia.

The literal meaning of this word:

Masshia is from the Hebrew root of words : M.SH.H Which mean to anoint(to rub something with liquid/cream).

This word is also used in Aramaic(see here http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/ the words in Aramaic to Oil and anoint are from M.SH.KH root)

The words is commonly used with oil and it's a part of jewish rituals:

1.For the high priest:

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tent of meeting, and shalt wash them with water.And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the tunic, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the skilfully woven band of the ephod.And thou shalt set the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
(Exodus 29:4-7)


if the anointed priest shall sin so as to bring guilt on the people, then let him offer for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin-offering.
(Leviticus 4:3)

So after the priest anointed he name is the the anointed priest - In Hebrew it will be the Masshia Priest.

2.For Kings:

The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them...
(Jotham allegory in Judges 9:8)

Which means that king coronation is by anoint oil on the king head.

The first Israeli King was Saul.here is the description of his coronation:

Then Samuel took the vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said: 'Is it not that the LORD hath anointed thee to be prince over His inheritance?
(Samuel1 10:1)

When David talked about Saul he said:
And he said unto his men: 'The LORD forbid it me, that I should do this thing unto my lord, the LORD'S anointed, to put forth my hand against him, seeing he is the LORD'S anointed.'
(Samuel1 24:6)

In Hebrew David calles Saul - Massiah!

After that David became King,here is the description of his coronation:

So all the elders of Israel came to the king to Hebron; and king David made a covenant with them in Hebron before the LORD; and they anointed David king over Israel.
(Samuel2 5:3)

David,before he died ordered that his son - Solomon will be the next king:

And the king said unto them: 'Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon.And let Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anoint him there king over Israel; and blow ye with the horn, and say: Long live king Solomon.
(Kings1 1:33-34)

and this is the description of Solomon coronation:

And Zadok the priest took the horn of oil out of the Tent, and anointed Solomon. And they blew the ram's horn; and all the people said: 'Long live king Solomon.'
(Kings1 1:39)

So In Hebrew Massiha - The anointed became to be synonym for Israel King!

The highlight moment in Israel History was the Israeli Kindom under David House.

So after Assyrian,Babylonian & Roman empires took over the rule in Israel and most of the jew were exhiled the jewish hope was to return to this point - to David Kindom era.

To this hope they called - Massiha!

see here the essence of this hope:

The anointed King(Massiha) is destined to stand up and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its antiquity, to the first sovereignty. He will build the Temple in Jerusalem and gather the strayed ones of Israel together. All laws will return in his days as they were before: Sacrificial offerings are offered and the Sabbatical years and Jubilees are kept, according to all its precepts that are mentioned in the Torah.

(Maimonides Kings 11:1)

If this is what jews hope for Massiha , did Jesus fullfilled any of those hopes?

Where is Abraham Grave?

And after this, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Machpelah before Mamre--the same is Hebron--in the land of Canaan.
(Genesis 23:19)

And Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;the field which Abraham purchased of the children of Heth; there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.
(Genesis 25:9-10)

According to the Jewish tradition Abraham Grave is in Hebron.

Muslim also believe that Abraham grave is in Hebron:

Habra (Hebron) is the village of Abraham al-Khalil (the Friend of God)...Within it is a strong fortress...being of enormous squared stones. In the middle of this stands a dome of stone, built in Islamic times, over the sepulchre of Abraham. The tomb of Isaac lies forward, in the main building of the mosque, the tomb of Jacob to the rear; facing each prophet lies his wife.
(Al-Muqaddasi http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Strange.309.jpg )

But what is the Islamic source for that?

I asked in Islam community (source: http://www.orkut.com/Main#CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=3126&tid=2554556273932877972)
where is Abraham grave and what is the source for that.

At the beginning - no one knew where is the place.One even suggested mecca...

After a while a guy named Arif said:

"The grave of Ibrahim (as) is located in the Ibrahimi mosque. The mosque is now divided in two in 1994. One part for Muslims and another for Jews community.

but no authentic source.. "

So Muslim can't find any Islamic source not in Quran or Hadith that say that Abraham grave is in Hebron!

So on what they base this believe?

Other guy named mYstiKaL SouL said:

"Muslim tradition in this respect is not independent. anything in the sources of the People of the Book which doesnot contradict Islamic sources can be accepted. "

So that means that the source of Islamic tradition that Abraham grave is in Hebron is actually the Jewish tradition!!!

One of the guys(which by now deleted his profile) said it's like Isra'iliyat:

The term isra'iliyyat usually refers to early literature of various types attributed by Muslim scholars to Jewish and Christian sources. Despite the continual and pervasive negative regard for isra'iliyyat, however, a massive amount of this material has been utilised by Muslim commentators throughout Islamic history.
(http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13759409)